Joe Grundy

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Posts by Joe Grundy

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  76

  BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

  by ThomasCovenant in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

  was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

  http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

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  Joe Grundy

  Mephis:

  "It's the WBTS' inherent secrecy which is the issue here, and it's that which has to be broken down if we're going to see them have effective child safeguarding which really should be the aim."

  I entirely agree.
  
• 
  76

  BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

  by ThomasCovenant in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

  was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

  http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

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• 

  Joe Grundy

  Oh dear. I don't think this can be right.

  Newport cong don't process any personal information apart from CCTV images, they say. So, no records of cong members, no records of publishers' hours, no records of JCs, - well, you get the idea.

  Naughty Newport - but at least they registered (bet it was only 'cos they have CCTV). Very few other congs have (search at ICO).
• 
  76

  BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

  by ThomasCovenant in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

  was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

  http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Joe Grundy

  And here's the entry for Newport Gwent congregation:

  Data Protection Register - Entry Details

  ---

  Registration Number: ZA097437

  Date Registered: 29 January 2015 Registration Expires: 28 January 2017

  Data Controller: Newport North Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses

  Address:

  Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses
  Penkin Hill
  Newport
  Gwent
  NP19 9NX
  

  Other Names:

  Unknown
  

  ---

  This register entry describes, in very general terms, the personal data being processed by:

  Newport North Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses

  Nature of work - Religious Worship and related activities

  Description of processing

  The following is a broad description of the way this organisation/data controller processes personal information. To understand how your own personal information is processed you may need to refer to any personal communications you have received, check any privacy notices the organisation has provided or contact the organisation to ask about your personal circumstances.

  Reasons/purposes for processing information

  We do not process personal information. We only use Camera Images to protect access to the site against those intent on criminal activities or intent on causing harm.

  Type/classes of information processed

  I process information relevant to the above reasons/purposes. This information may include:

  • Security Camera footage

  I also process sensitive classes of information that may include:

  • offences including alleged offences.

  Who the information is processed about

  Anyone accessing the Kingdom Hall

  Who the information may be shared with

  Possibly only the Police if it became necessary

  Where required by law, I share information with healthcare, social and welfare organisations.

  CCTV for crime prevention
  

  CCTV is used for maintaining the security of property and premises and for preventing and investigating crime, For these reasons the information processed may include visual images, personal appearance and behaviours. This information may be about offenders and suspected offenders, members of the public and those inside, entering or in the immediate vicinity of the area under surveillance. Where necessary or required this information is shared with the data subjects themselves, and police forces, making an enquiry.

  Transfers
  It may sometimes be necessary to transfer personal information overseas. When this is needed information is only shared within the European Economic Area (EEA). Any transfers made will be in full compliance with all aspects of the data protection act.
  
  
  
  

  ---

  
  
  

  © Copyright
• 
  76

  BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

  by ThomasCovenant in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

  was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

  http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Joe Grundy

  Mephis:

  I was disappointed with Rosenberg's comments. He seemed to have missed the point, and got it wrong re paper records.
  
• 
  76

  BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

  by ThomasCovenant in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

  was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

  http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

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  2. 
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• 

  Joe Grundy

  So there you have it.. When you join the organisation (JWs) you are agreeing to the above data collection, retention and sharing.

  How many 'bible studies' are made aware of this? I could make a guess.
  
• 
  76

  BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

  by ThomasCovenant in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

  was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

  http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

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  2. 
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• 

  Joe Grundy

  Here is the Data Protection registration for WT UK:

  Data Protection Register - Entry Details

  ---

  Registration Number: Z5281400

  Date Registered: 16 February 2001 Registration Expires: 15 February 2017

  Data Controller: INTERNATIONAL BIBLE STUDENTS ASSOCIATION

  Address:

  IBSA HOUSE
  THE RIDGEWAY
  LONDON
  NW7 1RN
  

  ---

  This register entry describes, in very general terms, the personal data being processed by:

  INTERNATIONAL BIBLE STUDENTS ASSOCIATION

  Nature of work - Charity (National)

  Description of processing

  The following is a broad description of the way this organisation/data controller processes personal information. To understand how your own personal information is processed you may need to refer to any personal communications you have received, check any privacy notices the organisation has provided or contact the organisation to ask about your personal circumstances.

  Reasons/purposes for processing information

  We process personal information to enable us to provide a voluntary service for the benefit of the national public as specified in our constitution; administer membership records; to fundraise and promote the interests of the charity; manage our employees and volunteers; maintain our own accounts and records. Our processing also includes the use of CCTV systems for the prevention of crime.

  Type/classes of information processed

  We process information relevant to the above reasons/purposes. This may include:

  • personal details
  • family details
  • lifestyle and social circumstances
  • membership details
  • goods and services
  • financial details
  • education and employment details
  • visual images, personal appearance and behaviour

  We also process sensitive classes of information that may include:

  • physical or mental health details
  • racial or ethnic origin
  • religious or other beliefs of a similar nature
  • offences and alleged offences
  • criminal proceedings, outcomes and sentences
  • trade union membership

  Who the information is processed about

  We process personal information about:

  • members
  • staff, volunteers
  • supporters
  • complainants, enquirers
  • advisers
  • representatives of other organisations
  • individuals captured by CCTV images

  Who the information may be shared with

  We sometimes need to share the personal information we process with the individual themself and also with other organisations. Where this is necessary we are required to comply with all aspects of the Data Protection Act (DPA). What follows is a description of the types of organisations we may need to share some of the personal information we process with for one or more reasons.

  Where necessary or required we share information with:

  • members
  • family, associates or representatives of the person whose personal data we are processing
  • employees
  • current, past and prospective employers
  • healthcare, social and welfare organisations
  • providers of goods and services
  • educator and examining bodies
  • financial organisations
  • employment and recruitment agencies
  • survey and research organisations
  • business associates and professional advisers
  • police forces
  • local and central government
  • other companies in the same group as the data controller
  • other voluntary and charitable organisations

  Transfers

  It may sometimes be necessary to transfer personal information overseas. When this is needed information may be transferred to countries or territories around the world. Any transfers made will be in full compliance with all aspects of the data protection act.

  
  
  
  
  

  ---

  

  © Copyright
• 
  76

  BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

  by ThomasCovenant in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

  was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

  http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Joe Grundy

  Landy:

  Yes, charities and not-for-profits are included under the Data Protection Act in England & Wales.
  
• 
  76

  BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

  by ThomasCovenant in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

  was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

  http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Joe Grundy

  In relation to the destruction of material ...

  In relation to 'special procedure material' under PACE 1984, i.e. material (documents etc.) held by a party (e.g. a bank, accountant, whatever) under a duty of confidence, this was only obtainable by an investigator (constable etc) under a Production Order from a Circuit Judge. When making an application for a PO, notice was given to the holder of the material so that they could appear before the judge to argue the PO if they wished. The notice always pointed out to the holder of the material that - having been put on notice about the material - the material was therefore protected from destruction etc. under the law.

  My point is this. Lawyers know about this sort of stuff. They will be very well aware of the general notice given by HHJ Goddard even if a specific notice was not served on WTBTS/IBSA UK (and I don't yet know whether a notice was served or not, perhaps WT was too small to be included). But an admitted Solicitor or a Barrister will have no excuse whatsoever.

  I suspect that right now there are frenzied communications going back and forth between UK and US (just as I;m sure there were similar communications between Australia and US during the ARC hearings).

  We all saw (and the world has seen) what a complete horlicks the WT made of the ARC hearings. The current climate in the UK regarding historic abuse does not bode well for the WT if it continues to obfuscate. I, for one, wouldn't want to be an elder hung out to dry for my actions - or even for shredding my notes.
  
• 
  76

  BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

  by ThomasCovenant in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

  was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

  http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Joe Grundy

  Cofty:

  Thanks for your kind comment. I am not a qualified lawyer, but in my former career was quite specialised and was able to guide prosecution lawyers, IYSIM. Certainly in conference with barristers, incl. QCs, the discussion was between equals. However, I have been retired for ten years and so my knowledge is not current so I am always open to correction.

  I was intrigued by the shambles of evidence that the WT put forward at the ARC hearings. WT knew what they were going to be asked and I would have expected a multi-million dollar corporation to have prepared better. Toole, as the lead lawyer in Australia, was -to be honest - a joke. I have arrested, interviewed and had convicted far sharper lawyers than him in small towns in Wales - and he was national legal adviser!

  I don't know whether WT took this on board, but it should have done. The shenanigans surrounding Jackson's appearance before ARC was a big deal. Watch the WT lawyer (the real one, not Toole) squirm and apologise to HHJ explaining that he had been misled by the WY head honchos. This does not happen very often and it really is a big deal.

  I wonder whether WT HQ and its lawyers, sitting in the US, have really grasped what they're dealing with. My limited knowledge of US federal law suggests that there is a sort of blanket immunity for religions under the constitution, and certainly the weight of religious vote is important. That's not the case in the UK (or in Australia) and religious organisations generally have no ;get of jail free' card.

  More to follow ...
  
• 
  76

  BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

  by ThomasCovenant in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

  was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

  http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Joe Grundy

  Phizzy:

  Thanks for your comment. I'm sure that my views/opinions/comments are of no more consequence than those of anyone else, but if they come back to me I am happy to back them up with references and examples.